Welcome to the NDMR Online Community! We would like to welcome you to our community and invite you to register an account or login. Being a registered nutcase is important, as it gives you several advantages over the 'normal' Guest status. After registering you will be able to download files and images, post messages, and access member-only portions of the forum - just to name a few. Registration is quick and simple, and only takes about a minute of your time.
Nutcase - Certified and Sectioned OUT OF LINE SINCE 59'
Posts
3,527
Gender
Male
Posts Per Day
1.52
Time Online
59 days 3 hours 23 minutes
Location
WORCESTERSHIRE
I'm looking at getting a towbar fitted to Dumbo my Downton so we can come down to the LGT in one car next year i was going to get a Mini trailer but the steel ones are heavy and the fibreglass ones are £££££££ so looking at a light weight trailer but I need advise on tow bars how do they fit I know a company called towequipe do one (all be it for Minis up to 1998 - mines the same just 1999) and it looks like part of the fittment attaches to the rear bumper lip? P&L Minis do one but wanted some advise please. I plan to fit a chrome cover to it so it doesn't look too odd on the back of the car
'PROUD TO HAVE BEEN A MARSHALL ON THE LGT 2007/2008/2009/2010'
'THE LGT IT'S WHAT MINI'S WERE MADE FOR'
"MINI'S HAVE FEELINGS TOO BE THEY OLD ONES OR NEW"
I think legally speaking you can't fit a towbar to a post 1998 mini (although I have seen them) so you might need to find someone who is a little bit "blind" to the law.
'Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a
well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting, ' Holy s*!t... What a Ride!! ' '
Yep, that was my thought and then the hard bit to work out if you're licensed to tow. Andrew has just worked on this with a guy on New MINI who was unaware his license did not cover him.
Anyone can tow a little trailer (up to 750 kg laden weight). As far as i was told, if you want to to anything larger you need to take a b+e test
select concorde 2 brighton then like 'heartbreaker' thats your only task for the day....do that then do whatever you want, easy! http://toursupport.grahamcoxon.co.uk/
Nutcase - Certified and Sectioned OUT OF LINE SINCE 59'
Posts
3,527
Gender
Male
Posts Per Day
1.52
Time Online
59 days 3 hours 23 minutes
Location
WORCESTERSHIRE
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Mo.....7 Reading this looks like I'm ok phew regarding the towbar bit I've asked the garage who look after him about the MOT and they are checking it out for me. I know the e Marking is an issue with them so well see
'PROUD TO HAVE BEEN A MARSHALL ON THE LGT 2007/2008/2009/2010'
'THE LGT IT'S WHAT MINI'S WERE MADE FOR'
"MINI'S HAVE FEELINGS TOO BE THEY OLD ONES OR NEW"
Looks ok. It's really confusing though so takes a while to work it out.
select concorde 2 brighton then like 'heartbreaker' thats your only task for the day....do that then do whatever you want, easy! http://toursupport.grahamcoxon.co.uk/
Nutcase - Certified and Sectioned Mr. Issigonis: we are not worthy . . .
Posts
1,090
Gender
Male
Posts Per Day
0.48
Time Online
57 days 19 hours 11 minutes
Location
Portsmouth
The year of your mini is an issue - I'd check with your insurer that you will be covered, as my understanding is that Minis from 1999 onwards are not allowed to tow because Rover chose not to put them forward as tow cars in some new EU legislation.
The year of your mini is an issue - I'd check with your insurer that you will be covered, as my understanding is that Minis from 1999 onwards are not allowed to tow because Rover chose not to put them forward as tow cars in some new EU legislation.
R.
Spoken to them and I'd be covered
'PROUD TO HAVE BEEN A MARSHALL ON THE LGT 2007/2008/2009/2010'
'THE LGT IT'S WHAT MINI'S WERE MADE FOR'
"MINI'S HAVE FEELINGS TOO BE THEY OLD ONES OR NEW"
the tow bar we have has 4 bolts at the back of the sub frame, goes under the car and 1 bolt under the rear seat, easy to fit , but did have to have the plate which goes behind the sub frame grinded 1/4inch of to fit. we have a chrome fliper cover.
I don't think they realise that Minis registered from 1 August 1998 can't tow as it wasn't part of their European Whole Vehicle Type Approval. The manufacturer had to decide when they applied for approval if the car would be allowed to tow and confirm that it had towbar mounting points built into the chassis. Apparently Rover didn't bother to say "yes".
If the car doesn't comply your insurance is void which doesn't bear thinking about if you have an accident. I suppose that technically that could be the case if you have a tow bar even if you aren't actually towing at the time.
If the car doesn't comply your insurance is void which doesn't bear thinking about if you have an accident. I suppose that technically that could be the case if you have a tow bar even if you aren't actually towing at the time.
If Insurance companies can find away out of paying out they'll take it >
'Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a
well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting, ' Holy s*!t... What a Ride!! ' '
If the car doesn't comply your insurance is void which doesn't bear thinking about if you have an accident. I suppose that technically that could be the case if you have a tow bar even if you aren't actually towing at the time.
Having read that last paragraph again you can have a tow bar if it's to be used for things like cycle carriers, it sounds like it's only an issue if you are using it for towing.
As a side point there were a couple of cars on the LGT with trailers - I think they were probably pre-98 so it's not an issue but maybe it's something that we should be aware of if newer cars turn up on the run with a trailer as we expect them to be adequately insured.
Do you really need a trailer? Can't you get away with a good sized roofbox? We can get shedloads in the one we've got , it fits nice & low down on the roof & can still cruise at 75-80 down the motorway. Cheaper than a trailer & no insurance problems!
'Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a
well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting, ' Holy s*!t... What a Ride!! ' '
I must admit even though thay've said it would be ok I'm seriously now considering a big roof box
I came across one last year. It was sprayed to match the Mini it was on. At present it is in storage at work waiting for a home. Let me know if you're interested. It even has a Mini bonnet badge on it. Complete with keys and roof bars.
I came across one last year. It was sprayed to match the Mini it was on. At present it is in storage at work waiting for a home. Let me know if you're interested. It even has a Mini bonnet badge on it. Complete with keys and roof bars.
Interested yes silly question how big is it? And What colour?
'PROUD TO HAVE BEEN A MARSHALL ON THE LGT 2007/2008/2009/2010'
'THE LGT IT'S WHAT MINI'S WERE MADE FOR'
"MINI'S HAVE FEELINGS TOO BE THEY OLD ONES OR NEW"
Ah yes, the same people who became quite irate when I pointed out that their "fog lamp removal kit" rendered cars illegal under the Road Traffic Lighting Regulations SI 1796/1989 (as amended), as it moves the fog light too close to the brake light. They eventually added this disclaimer: "Please check with your local road traffic laws for conformity" which is a lot less information than their trailer law page
maybe it's something that we should be aware of if newer cars turn up on the run with a trailer as we expect them to be adequately insured.
If the insurance policy explicitly declares that towing a trailer is covered (as mine does) then given that the insurance company has accepted the risk - and premium - on a post-08/98 car and they're covering towing, they are covering towing whether or not the car shouldn't have a towbar fitted due to Type Approval.
IMHO they would have difficulty turning round later and saying "well, even though we knew from the time of proposal that the car was of an age where Type Approval for towing is required, and that this vehicle doesn't have Type Approval, and we accepted the risk and provided you with a policy that specifically provided cover when towing a trailer, we've decided that you're not covered after all". Material facts work both ways.
Checking the above would be getting into the realms of OB shouting "Papieren bitte" when people are booking in to check for an insurance certificate and appropriate policy sections "just in case", as a post 08/98 car may not be immediately identifiable. The Mini in my avatar pic is an 09/94 Mayfair
Then we're looking at maybe checking the MOT certificate... and driving license with category check... and if the driver isn't taking the trailer on any of the runs themselves, what then?
There are probably even more cars on the LGT of all ages which have undeclared modifications rendering their insurance invalid - black and white rather than grey areas like this - yet we still expect them to be adequately insured.
I must admit even though thay've said it would be ok I'm seriously now considering a big roof box
Ask Terry what it can do to fuel economy versus a trailer on LEJOG
OK, the distance done for the LGT is much less, but it's still worth the consideration. We only dropped 1 to 2 mpg towing the minibum full of camping gear on LEJOG, and that's all-metal (the trailer, not the camping gear ). As ever, your mileage may vary
As a bit of trivia, the BMW MINI First is also not type approved for towing, even though the mounting points are there as the body shell is the same as the One and Cooper - though that applies to the generally underpowered 1.4l First. I don't know whether the current 1.6l First is Type Approved as I don't have the first hand experience.
This lack of type approval on the First is something that dealers seem unaware of. The dealer we got Mrs Siddarz' MINI from, brand new, answered "yes, of course" when we asked beforehand whether a tow bar could be fitted.
It took some pestering over a 3 week period for them (and two other unconnected dealers) to tell us why they wouldn't return calls asking for a quote on fitting one. When making enquiries with BMW as to why they couldn't find a price for one, the dealers had found out about the lack of Type Approval and (IMHO) really didn't want to have to make that difficult phone call back.
(disclaimer: none of the above represents legal advice, and whatever happens in this respect, it is absolutely NOT my fault this time )
Nutcase - Certified and Sectioned OUT OF LINE SINCE 59'
Posts
3,527
Gender
Male
Posts Per Day
1.52
Time Online
59 days 3 hours 23 minutes
Location
WORCESTERSHIRE
The fuel is also something I need to think about the golf used about half a tank so say £40 I travelled down with the big railway travel trunk on the roof and it didn't make much difference to the amount of fuel I used but having said that we were averaing a lower speed but only by 5-10 mph)
I love the disclaimer but not sure it would stand up to close inspection lol
'PROUD TO HAVE BEEN A MARSHALL ON THE LGT 2007/2008/2009/2010'
'THE LGT IT'S WHAT MINI'S WERE MADE FOR'
"MINI'S HAVE FEELINGS TOO BE THEY OLD ONES OR NEW"
We do about 225 miles coming down to Bideford for the GT this year, with the roof box on & with 3 people in the car, doing 60-70mph most of the way we used about 3/4 of a tank of petrol, which equals about 36 mpg, which I don't think is too bad. Then once we're down the roof box comes straight off
'Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a
well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting, ' Holy s*!t... What a Ride!! ' '
Nutcase - Certified and Sectioned Mr. Issigonis: we are not worthy . . .
Posts
1,090
Gender
Male
Posts Per Day
0.48
Time Online
57 days 19 hours 11 minutes
Location
Portsmouth
This has developed into a very interesting debate and it's amazing how people's lateral thinking works. Talk about "food for thought . . ."
As far as insurance, and documentation for cars on the run goes, I introduced the question of insurance as a friendly piece of advice in order to ensure a mate's car wasn't inadvertantly uninsured. It was absolutely not because I wanted to ensure cars on the run were legal - that's the responsibility of the owner/driver at all times when it's on the road, and is something LGT organisers should (IMHO) steer well away from.
As regards towing in a 1999 mini, I think the "material facts" piece above is excellent advice, and I would expect insurance to be honoured; however the issue of the car (and trailer) being on the road is still an issue - well it might be to an overzealous policeman (like some of the tw*ts you see on some of those "Motorway Cops" type programmes - not all of them, but some are (IMHO) way OTT.).
The driving force for this whole topic was to only bring one car to Devon, which of course would save one vehicle's fuel; and whatever you do to increase the mini's capacity will mean it uses more fuel - but the increase should be less than the saving. I've never towed with a mini, so I defer to those who have. I've had a top box and it did affect the mpg - but I have a very heavy right foot, so mpg isn't something I choose to think about! (LOL).
Whatever you decide to do will I'm sure contribute to a great LGT.
Nutcase - Certified and Sectioned OUT OF LINE SINCE 59'
Posts
3,527
Gender
Male
Posts Per Day
1.52
Time Online
59 days 3 hours 23 minutes
Location
WORCESTERSHIRE
Thanks Richard I appreciate the fact you raised the insurance issue. I agree it is up to individuals to be reposable for their cars. I have decidied I won't be going down the trailer route I have a towbar mounted bike rack but I won't be using it on the Mini as it would look a bit daft. I'm looking in to prices for geeting the roofbox Camp Freddie has offered me repainted to suit Dumbo I think we would still be tight on space but we would pack lighter and if I took the base of the back seat out and put at the back of the front seats giving me a flat area for the gas bottle, genorator to sit flat.
The thing I find amazing is that according to the law I could legally tow with my 1969 1000 MKII with drum brakes all round but my 1999 1.3MPI with Discs (4 pot calipers etc) I can not
'PROUD TO HAVE BEEN A MARSHALL ON THE LGT 2007/2008/2009/2010'
'THE LGT IT'S WHAT MINI'S WERE MADE FOR'
"MINI'S HAVE FEELINGS TOO BE THEY OLD ONES OR NEW"
Nutcase - Certified and Sectioned OUT OF LINE SINCE 59'
Posts
3,527
Gender
Male
Posts Per Day
1.52
Time Online
59 days 3 hours 23 minutes
Location
WORCESTERSHIRE
I could use the MWB Crafter at work that has a towbar on would need to take another test though or I could use the 7.5 tonne lorry be a bit scary getting the Mini in and out though lol
'PROUD TO HAVE BEEN A MARSHALL ON THE LGT 2007/2008/2009/2010'
'THE LGT IT'S WHAT MINI'S WERE MADE FOR'
"MINI'S HAVE FEELINGS TOO BE THEY OLD ONES OR NEW"
As a bit of trivia, the BMW MINI First is also not type approved for towing, even though the mounting points are there as the body shell is the same as the One and Cooper - though that applies to the generally underpowered 1.4l First. I don't know whether the current 1.6l First is Type Approved as I don't have the first hand experience.
This lack of type approval on the First is something that dealers seem unaware of. The dealer we got Mrs Siddarz' MINI from, brand new, answered "yes, of course" when we asked beforehand whether a tow bar could be fitted.
It took some pestering over a 3 week period for them (and two other unconnected dealers) to tell us why they wouldn't return calls asking for a quote on fitting one. When making enquiries with BMW as to why they couldn't find a price for one, the dealers had found out about the lack of Type Approval and (IMHO) really didn't want to have to make that difficult phone call back.
(disclaimer: none of the above represents legal advice, and whatever happens in this respect, it is absolutely NOT my fault this time )
As a matter of interest, I had a removable tow bar fitted to Gem and happily towed both of our trailers (though not both at once ) obviously ignorance is bliss. I had the tow bar fitted at the local trailer dealer but checked with BMW beforehand to make sure I wasn't invalidating my warranty - in fact they pointed me in the direction of the local trailer dealer!! PS I'm sure we could make it your fault Simon :-0
Erm no idea but I think I know where your going I think I may be about to swaer.... trailer the Mini down....? need to wash my mouth out now lol
Difference being you're doing it to save on fuel (and mileage?) across the two cars, rather than cocoon Dumbo in an air-conditioned bubble so it's all pretty at the other end
Looking at the techincal details of the tow bar I have brought it says max towing weight is 1700 kgs
Check what the Golf's spec is rather than the tow bar. If it's enough for Dumbo + small car trailer, you're likely to save a chunk of cash on fuel. 7 or 8 LGTs should pay for the trailer
As a matter of interest, I had a removable tow bar fitted to Gem and happily towed both of our trailers (though not both at once ) obviously ignorance is bliss
The type approval is only missing on the First, If Gem is a One or a Cooper they're type approved.
Welcome to the NDMR Online Community!
Male
so we can come down to the LGT in one car next year i was going to get a Mini trailer but the steel ones are heavy and the fibreglass ones are £££££££ so looking at a light weight trailer but I need advise on tow bars how do they fit I know a company called towequipe do one (all be it for Minis up to 1998 - mines the same just 1999) and it looks like part of the fittment attaches to the rear bumper lip? P&L Minis do one but wanted some advise please. I plan to fit a chrome cover to it so it doesn't look too odd on the back of the car
Logged
Female
) obviously ignorance is bliss. I had the tow bar fitted at the local trailer dealer but checked with BMW beforehand to make sure I wasn't invalidating my warranty - in fact they pointed me in the direction of the local trailer dealer!! 
